Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:25:39 +0100 From: Stefan Leng To: GURPSnet-L@io.com Subject: Re: New grappling skills rule At 18:08 05.11.1997 -0800, oboeman wrote: >I had a new idea for making grappling skills (namely Judo and Wrestling) >more combat effective. From my experience in martial arts, 3 main >factors are involved in dealing damage from a throw, that is: the height >the person being thrown falls from, (i.e. from a shoulder throw someone >would fall a greater distance than from for example, a hip throw) the >strength of the person throwing, and the skill of the person throwing. While a heigher throw may do a little more damage to a unskilled person, it is much easier to do a breakfall if you have been trown higher. Throws that can do more damage are not higher but faster and more forcefull, using the full body wight of the attacker. >So a basic throw (let's say a hip throw) does 1D-4 damage in GURPS from >the fall. We could say this hip throw does Thrust-2 extra damage for >calculating the person throwing's strength into the damage. Then skill >is also involved, so we could say 1/5 of skill is the bonus to damage >for Judo and Wrestling. > >So a ST 10 Judoka with a skill of 15 could do a hip throw for 1D-4(for >the fall) + 1D-4(for Thrust-2) + 3(1/5 Judo skill 15) = 2D-5 (1D+1). This looks much to high to me for a normal hip throw. 1D+1 cr is in the rage of weapon damage or a karate kick. Most throws will do much less damage. I also think that the skill of the attacker should not give a damage bonus, but enable the judoka to do special throws that do more damage (see Maki-Komi-Waza below). I don't know how to model the ability of a skilled martial artist to throw somebody so that he lands on a more vulnerable body part. We dont train that in judo. One posibility may just to use hit location. Below I have included some new manouvers for judo that I have posted to the list some month ago. If MA2 has about 8 different kicks, there should be more than one (or two, if you include trip) judo throw: Damage from a normal judo throw has more to do with how the victim lands and on the condition of the ground than with the strength of the attacker. The 1d-2 fit nice here. There are judo throws that use the attackers body wieght, they do more damage. I have done a gurps writeup for them and other special throws. I have included them below. Note: In my house rules I resolve a judo throw as a quick contest. I will discribe the manuevers both for the original Gurps rules and my alternate rules. While judo uses about 100 different throws, there are only some classes of throws that need special rules. With most Judo throws you throw your opponent and remain standing. This is the standart judo throw manuever. Counter throw (Kaeshi-Waza) Judo - 4 (average) This is a throw desinged to counter a Throw. After you succsesfull defend against a throw, takedown or slam, you roll against counter throw to trow your opponent. He has a peanalty to defend equal to the amount by witch you made your defence against his trow or won the quick contest (minimum 1). Maki-Komi-Waza Judo - 3 (average) With this throw you use your own wight to trow a opponent, falling with him and landing on top of him. A 1/5 of your ST ( round down) is substracted from his defence and added to the damage. (In reality the damage is done more by the wight of the attacker than by his strength, however I use ST because it gives the simpler calculation and usualy correlates well with the wight) Self-fall-throw (Sutemi-Waza) Judo - 4 (hard) This trow consists of trowing yourself to the ground, using your momentum to throw your opponent over your body. He is at -2 to defence, but if he succeeds he stands and you lie on the ground bevor him. The same happens if you donīt make your skill roll. I'm mot sure about the english terms for this manuevers. I give the japanese names as used in german judo literature. Stefan Stefan Leng leng@sunwan.mpik-tueb.mpg.de tel: +49/7071/601564 fax: +49/7071/601575 Max-Planck-Institut fuer biologische Kybernetik; Tuebingen