GURPSnet-Digest Wednesday, January 22 2003 Volume 04 : Number 3768 In this issue: [VEHICLE] of the week 430 - TL7 RC Ship Re: IQ vs ST/DX/HT Re: Resisted Spells Re: [Fwd: Re: Might-Spell and ST and Fatigue] Re: Resisted Spells Re: IQ vs ST/DX/HT RE: Resisted Spells RE: Resisted Spells Re: Resisted Spells Re: Resisted Spells Re: [Fwd: Re: Might-Spell and ST and Fatigue] Help with a power Re: Help with a power Re: Help with a power Grass THE TIN DRUM/Churchill THE SECOND WORLD WAR Vehicles Companion all-call (fwd) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the GURPSnet-L or GURPSnet-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:21:36 +0100 (MET) From: "Onno Meyer" Subject: [VEHICLE] of the week 430 - TL7 RC Ship This is a weekly posting with GURPS vehicles (and the like) to the GURPSnet mailing list. I grant the permission for all non-commercial redistribution of my work, but I would like to know if you put it on a website or the like. With a slight delay, old vehicles appear at http://gurpsnet.sjgames.com/Archive/Vehicles/Collections/ and http://www.geocities.com/copeab/VOTW.html Onno Meyer, 1/2003 RC Ship v1.0 (TL7) Copyright 2003 by Onno Meyer This is a small, remotely controlled ship. It looks like a harbor tug. The ship is powered by an electric motor with a small battery. The hull and superstructure contain a small amount of space for payloads, but care has to be taken not to swamp the ship. The ship is controlled by a simple remote control console (VXii24) with a short range radio (not included in the listed stats). Subassemblies: Body -3; superstructure -4. P&P: 0.1 kW light screw propeller; 750 kWs advanced battery. Occ: - Cargo: - Armor F RL B T U Body: 1/1 1/1 1/1 1/1 1/1 Superstructure: 1/1 1/1 1/1 1/1 Equipment Body: 3-mile radio. Statistics Size: 1.5'x0.3'x0.3' Payload: - Lwt: 10 lbs. Volume: 0.24 cf Maint: 1,435 hours Price: $194.25 HT: 12 HP: 1 [Body] 1 [Superstructure] wSpeed: 8 wAccel: 2 wDecel: 5 wMR: 0.5 wSR: 2 Flotation 11.232 lbs. Draft 0.15' Design Notes The 0.216-cf body has an extra-light frame with average hydrodynamic lines and 0.1225 cf of empty space. The 0.024-cf superstructure has an extra-light frame with 0.024 cf of empty space. The surface area is 3 sf. The armor is expensive composite. The TL7 vehicle uses Vehicles [2nd edition, 3rd printing, July '02 errata] and Vehicles Expansion 2. Next Week: Probably a TL4 pirate brig for Blaquepsmith. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:59:35 +0100 From: Ludovic Chabant Subject: Re: IQ vs ST/DX/HT Anthony Jackson wrote: > > Congratulations. You have successfully identified one of the traditional GURPS > flamewars. thanks :) (you might consider my post as a stress test for your self control!) The 'Ego' stat (by Rasmus) is something I've been trying (although with a different name) with one of my 2 game groups, but as we don't roll dice very often, I still can't tell you if it's better or not. Leaving Will and Perception at 10 (that's Volker) is just the same as adding 2 new stats, IMHO. 6 stats is the upper limit for me, as I don't like too many stats, but it could work too, as I also don't like IQ and perception being the same. Sorry for bringing back an old flamewar, but I wanted to have some 'pro-IQ' opinions, so that I can defend GURPS when my players complain (which is not often, thanksfully... they complain much more against me ! *sigh*). I'm aware of the most common alternatives, but I couldn't find anywhere somebody who'd stand up for the current system as it is, without tweaks. I wonder if sjgames is going to change this in the next gurps version... L.A.B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 03:53:37 -0600 From: Jeff Wilson Subject: Re: Resisted Spells > > >From: Thomas Ackermann > > >I have a problem with Resisted Spells ... > >B150, Resisted Spells together with the Errata about reducing the >casterīs skill-level to the highest of 16 and the subjects resistance (i >assume, of course, up the maximum of the casters full skill-level!), give >the following situation: > >The casters skill against a resisting living target, whoīs resistance >is 16 or higher, is reduced to that targets level of resistance! > >So, after a target has a resistance of 16, our mageīs skill is reduced to >exactly that level! > >This in turn means, that a mage can never get a better chance than about >46 percent incl. critical successes, *even* if his skill-level is 150 and >the resistance only 16 ... > >Is that realy what was wanted with the rules and the errata? > > Almost. Currently the rules allow the attacking mage a slightly greater than 50% chance of success, in that a critical success on the original spell does not allow an attempt at resistance. However, it is a very common house rule to let the victim resist even a critical success if they likewise make a critical success on the resistanxce roll. If you want to favor the aggressor more without inventing new rules, you can use the optional extended critical table on p.CII73 or p.SU81. Any amount of magic resistance will still put a wizard at a disadvantage though. If you are not the GM, then the solution would be to not bother with most resisted spells, but instead use the indirect effects of regular spells like Create Animal or Create Fire, or buy a very high level in a resistance-lowering spell like Foolishness so you can afford to wear down the enemy. - -- Jeff Wilson How Am I Posting? 1-800-555-6789 "If your SecOp can ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:19:52 +0900 From: tbone Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Might-Spell and ST and Fatigue] Hi, Thomas. A thought on the battle fatigue questions: I fully understand your point that "a battle" in the GURPS fatigue rules is vague; a battle could be a quick, easy skirmish or an intense week of siege. And the fatigue rules don't differentiate between the two, despite what should be a huge difference in fatigue. But when I see a rule like that, I don't assume that SJG is saying, "Apply such-and-such fatigue for a battle. Any battle, I don't care what the length or intensity or any other circumstances, just do it like this and stop asking questions." : ) Rather, I take this sort of rule to be an unwritten statement like, "Fatigue for a battle is far too complex to cover in detail here; here's a guideline for an undefined 'typical' battlefield skirmish. Use it where it feels right, but otherwise, you'll have to use your own judgment in working things to your liking." That's how I read rules like that. Which, of course, brings the question, "So what are 'rules' for, if they make the players work out the details?" To that, I'd simply note that the writers of a book like the Basic Set have tight deadlines and budget limits; they have to gloss over a lot of minor areas. It's unavoidable. If there are enough players out there interested in more detailed and realistic workings of fatigue, this is a good chance for you or somebody to work out a home-brewed proposal that answers the issue, properly addressing all the factors you feel are relevant. That's the great thing about the Internet age: we don't have to wait for game companies to fill in all the holes, we can jump in and do it ourselves! Go ahead and show SJG (and all of us) how it should be done! Yours, T. Bone tbone@io.com T. Bone's GURPS Diner http://www.io.com/~tbone/gurps/ > On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 08:15:19PM +0200, Kaj Sotala wrote: >> 1.a. An encounter between opposing forces: an important battle in the >> Pacific campaign. >> 1.b. Armed fighting; combat: wounded in battle. >> 2. A match between two combatants: trial by battle. >> 3.a. A protracted controversy or struggle: won the battle of the >> budget. >> 3.b. An intense competition: a battle of wits. >> >> I'm pretty sure a battle means the end of whatever encounter or >> conflict is going >> on. In your attacking castle example, the battle's probably over when >> the entire >> castle has been taken (or the attackers have been repulsed, >> obviously). > > Fine :-) > What, if you need several days for that castle? > > Yes, i think, a battle can be all of a days work. > So, fatigue should not kick in for fighters, till they finish days > work. > But still, that will get quite artificial in most situations and games > ... > > Also, that does not solve the problem with mages, psis and supers! > It cannot be right, that one of those uses a apell/ability and then is > such a nice weak baby ... > > Byebye, > -- > Thomas Ackermann | Tel. +49-(0)228/631369 | Mobil: 0178-2016033 > Email: > > ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jan 2003 12:39:28 -0000 From: "Volker Bach" Subject: Re: Resisted Spells On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 00:13:54 +0100, Thomas Ackermann wrote : > Hi! > > I have a problem with Resisted Spells ... > > B150, Resisted Spells together with the Errata about reducing the > casterīs skill-level to the highest of 16 and the subjects resistance (i > assume, of course, up the maximum of the casters full skill-level!), give > the following situation: > > The casters skill against a resisting living target, whoīs resistance > is 16 or higher, is reduced to that targets level of resistance! > > So, after a target has a resistance of 16, our mageīs skill is reduced to > exactly that level! > > This in turn means, that a mage can never get a better chance than about > 46 percent incl. critical successes, *even* if his skill-level is 150 and > the resistance only 16 ... > > Is that realy what was wanted with the rules and the errata? I believe so, for two reasons that are understandable, though I do not fully favor the result. 1) if Mind Control magic (which is what most resisted spells do) had the kind of success chance Skill levels in the 18-20 range (often seen on hi- fan mages) imply, it could become an adventure shortcut - much as Psi and similar powers can in other contexts. A powerful PC mage would just take over an enemy, be led to a more powerful officer, take over *him*... 2) powerful NPC enemy mages could take over the PCs easily, with all the implications that has. Not many players are at all comfortable with the thought of their characters becoming thus 'taken out of their hands', let alone being made to do unsavory things. Thus for reasons of play balance and group wellbeing the system makes provision for lots of opprtunities for resisting and difficulties at controlling people. I find that this leads many mages down the "I use force 'cause sublety don't work" route. But that's personal. Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:37:48 -0600 (CST) From: Bret Indrelee Subject: Re: IQ vs ST/DX/HT On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Onno Meyer wrote: > > I've done SciFi adventures where lots of people bought down their ST and > > up their IQ. I took a more balanced approach and found it was quite > > viable. Although I did not have the huge skills that some of the other > > characters had, I didn't become totally useless outside my niche. > > -Bret > > What kind of SF game? For a realistic or semi-hard game in our > solar system, Earth gravity is the worst the PCs are likely to > encounter. TL9 with pre-TL10 FTL drives. FTL was a very new thing. People were making 'first contact' with lost early colonies set up by slower-than-light sleeper ships sent out centuries (think it was close to 900 years) ago. No FTL communications available. There were a band of gravities that we would have to deal with, but most of them were less than 1.2 Gs as I recall. > In an interstellar game like Traveller, there should be worlds > with higher gravity every now and then, just like worlds with > lower gravity. > > (Some people find the level of reserve power in my vehicles odd, > but if you're hovering over a 1.5 G world, a lot of the reserves > are gone ...) I've always considered them good design. You want some margin and have to handle greater than earth gravity. Nothing worse than getting stranded on a high gravity world because you didn't think to check if you would have enough power to escape before you landed. In this campaign, we were in a scout service. Lots of landings without a space port. We were supposed to gather preliminary data on planets, determine if it was worth sending more ships. We also did a few supply runs for the scout service. The strength was useful for two things: carrying equipment and hand-to-hand barroom brawls. The later was for when neither side was trying to kill the other. In a *real* fight, everyone was pulling weapons that you just did *not* want to get hit by. - -Bret - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bret Indrelee | "Unleash the baby ducks." bret@io.com | www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020522 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:55:47 -0800 From: "Russell Jennings" Subject: RE: Resisted Spells I've found that the magic rules are pretty good as they are. Every time I've tried to change them, one of my players starts pointing out scenarios that would QUICKLY make it unbalancing. Such as a raise mana spell. This spell would increase the mana level of a hex by one rank. So, from low mana to normal mana. Keep going with this, and eventually you would have a huge area of Very High Mana, because the mage could keep standing in the high mana hex and raising the mana of the hexes around him. Almost any basic rule change would have this kind of effect. A lot of times, I say that some of the big huge spells were cast "in a long ago time, when mages had control of mana like we today can only dream of." Take putting a magical barrier around the city, or in the city walls, so you can't teleport into the city. According to the rules, it would take an army of mages working for almost a century, doing nothing else but casting the spell. So, i handwave it and say "the spells always been there, no one remembers how it was cast. The city is ancient, dating back thousands of years, to a time when elves walked the earth with men." Russ > > 1) if Mind Control magic (which is what most resisted spells do) had the > kind of success chance Skill levels in the 18-20 range (often seen on hi- > fan mages) imply, it could become an adventure shortcut - much as Psi and > similar powers can in other contexts. A powerful PC mage would just take > over an enemy, be led to a more powerful officer, take over *him*... > > 2) powerful NPC enemy mages could take over the PCs easily, with all the > implications that has. Not many players are at all comfortable with the > thought of their characters becoming thus 'taken out of their hands', let > alone being made to do unsavory things. > > Thus for reasons of play balance and group wellbeing the system makes > provision for lots of opprtunities for resisting and difficulties at > controlling people. I find that this leads many mages down the "I > use force > 'cause sublety don't work" route. But that's personal. > > Volker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:08:04 -0500 (EST) From: hal@buffnet.net Subject: RE: Resisted Spells > > I've found that the magic rules are pretty good as they are. Every > time I've tried to change them, one of my players starts pointing out > scenarios that would QUICKLY make it unbalancing. Such as a raise mana > spell. This spell would increase the mana level of a hex by one rank. > So, from low mana to normal mana. Keep going with this, and eventually > you would have a huge area of Very High Mana, because the mage could > keep standing in the high mana hex and raising the mana of the hexes > around him. > > Almost any basic rule change would have this kind of effect. A lot of > times, I say that some of the big huge spells were cast "in a long ago > time, when mages had control of mana like we today can only dream of." > Take putting a magical barrier around the city, or in the city walls, > so you can't teleport into the city. According to the rules, it would > take an army of mages working for almost a century, doing nothing else > but casting the spell. So, i handwave it and say "the spells always > been there, no one remembers how it was cast. The city is ancient, > dating back thousands of years, to a time when elves walked the earth > with men." > > Russ What I tend to do is have players try to craft spells (or I craft them myself) that takes into account the following... 1) that spells alter reality, but ultimately have to conform to the physics of reality. Thus, a spell that induces growth in plants and such, and is a cheap costing spell fatigue wise - must be using the natural resources of the ground the plant is in - and depletes it faster as a result. 2) there tends to be the law of conservation of energy etc with magic. In the raise mana spell suggested above? Set it up so that it lowers the level of mana around it by a set level. The better the spell, the more costly it is 3) more often than not, spells need to be refined. The first successful incarnation of a researched spell tends not to be the BEST. Otherwise, there would be really NASTY spells floating around that would have been researched, but were not listed in GURPS MAGIC because no one ever thought about it... ;) Hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:29:44 +0100 From: Thomas Ackermann Subject: Re: Resisted Spells On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 08:55:47AM -0800, Russell Jennings wrote: > I've found that the magic rules are pretty good as they are. > So, i handwave it and say "the spells always been there, no one > remembers how it was cast. The city is ancient, dating back thousands of > years, to a time when elves walked the earth with men." The problem is, that i see GURPS Magic and Grimoire as *completely* unbalanced at best! That whole construction is such arbritrary, that i sometime cannot believe that itīs from the same people who made GURPS core rules, that sometimes even shine ... On one side, mages are under such strong control, that it is just to fun to play one. Image all that Spell Throwing spells. 3 turn to get damage that will be able to do damage to a armored knight or a dragon or even only a door, then aiming. With a mage who has never such a great DX, he need increadible much points to get some decent skill- level. Even with that, he will be better to aim four full turn ... That is already *seven* turn in a combat situation. Then the target can block or dodge ... My mage--player already gave up on that topic! If there would be some open-ended rules, at least. Add double as much fatigue to reduced casting time, some option to *get* that fatigue, another option to increase damage, the next one to increase areas in a better way, and so on ...(please no flames, in that case, i just throw some examples - there are better ones, but i am too tires to write long). In many way, mages are completely controlled and no fun to play (in OUR campaign, that is). With the *right* options, no 100, 150, 200 or 300 points mage should be able to do "incredible" mighty things. But mages with 500, 1000 or if your wish 10000 points should be able to protect or enclose a city or even country with a forcefield! Of course, i would not realy need all of that, but i would like to have *rules* for that! Then, i can use them at least for that mighty NPCs instead of just making things up and next time make them up different ... A generic universal RPS should, IMHO, be able to simulate all sorts of fiction! And look at that Enchantment rules - my mage-player wanted to create some things. After talking about what he would need (mostly a village full of enchanters and quite some years, while he wanted to create not even such mighty things), he was just looking wit great eyes and stoped developing his characer. It is MY job as game master to balance that finally, but the games system just does not allow for what he would like to do! It could even be done in a way that the years normally needed for Enchantment are drawn from some pool of problems, or age or need sacrifices, or whatever ... I also have Magic Items 1 and 2. Instead of more rules to create things, they give mostly interesting MI, that can never be reproduced, whoīs spells are never given as explanation (that would realy add to GURPS Magic!) and are also mostlysuch expensive, that i cannot even imagine a world where this items could exist ... Also, ever tried to make a cleric, a priest who can *revive* a dead person? If i recall correctly, that needs 500 energy. Very High Mana or Very High Sanctity is not what may be needed (when you need to do it right now and in Normal Mana ...), but does not help anyway. No, a mage would need 5 4 companions and 5 times 100-point powerstones to do that. Great! Thatīs not my imagination ... Or a way that a mage just getīs through opposition, instead of just 46 percent with skill-15000 against resistance-16. Thatīs just nonsense in my eyes. There is no need to allow that to ordinary mages, but there should be a way to enabled that kind of games! Examples are countless. On the other hand, GURPS mages are such mighty, that i get grey hairs from only thinking about them. For example, the funny little spell Aportation. Get a bit distance from mostly any character, try your roll, maybe need to try a second time (but normaly not more), and you have him under control for 60 seconds, that is 60 meters, that is 50d-50, that is 125 points of damage - enough to automaticall kill a HT 20 character. Oh yes, of course the one or opther character could be design to avoid that. But *my* two fighter-characters and a cleric are a bit pissed off from such spells. Ahh, for example "Enlarge" again ... Oh, my god! Given Fatigue - and to be able to do at least a bit things at the lowpowered spells - then also enables you to be a god for a short time and destroy complete cities ... Or, Teleport Other, or Levitation, or, or, or Things are just not *balanced* in GURPS magic! Some are incredible weak and other are incredible stronh. I just donīt have time and energy to sort the spells, discuss with my players, then discover the next problem and so on. I just want to working, flexible, balanced and open-ended magic-system, where normaly mages are quite down to earth and can just be matches to equally powered figheters and the like, but also real rules that allow, Gandalfs, Dark Lords, Summoners, Demi-Gods, Gods, Immortals and whatever i may need in my games - *without* using a different game- system or working for years on GURPS to create one myself. I even tried that several times, combining ideas from GURPS Magic, Improvised Magic, Rune Magic, Ritual/Spiritual Magic, Magic from GURPS Myth and GURPS Celtic Myths(?), Mage the Ascension, SOSī Magic System, FUDGE Magic incl. Magical Medley, D&D Magic and even The primal Order. But never i could work out something such complete that i could use it in my campaign! Also, i think, that such a complete Magic-System is *real* work - work, i would *love* to pay for. But myself, i just dont have enough time, energy and dedication as well as capability and companions to work on that system. I just try and try again with GURPS Magic, to finally get a horror again and start over with some new idea ... :-( So, that was pretty much what i can say right in that tired moment. Please not so much flames, the above was just a late explosion of problems, and i know that there are some way and example how it could work at least a bit better. I also know, that i threw ideas, examples and arguments without staying straight - thatīs mostly because my fingers are writing that while i already want to go to bed. :-) I could add more ideas, examples and wishes, but that just needs to much time and will finally not help. GURPS is already too good for me and i will not change to another system, maybe that is what makes me so unhappy. Byebye, - -- Thomas Ackermann | Tel. +49-(0)228/631369 | Mobil: 0178-2016033 Email: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:47:36 +0100 From: Thomas Ackermann Subject: Re: Resisted Spells On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 12:39:28PM -0000, Volker Bach wrote: > 1) if Mind Control magic (which is what most resisted spells do) had the > kind of success chance Skill levels in the 18-20 range (often seen on hi- > fan mages) imply, it could become an adventure shortcut - much as Psi and > similar powers can in other contexts. A powerful PC mage would just take > over an enemy, be led to a more powerful officer, take over *him*... Yes, i think, it is not balanced. It should be possible to balance a campaign to a degree that magic can do exactly as much as you want to do it. GURPS Magic mostly is a all-or-nothing system ... > 2) powerful NPC enemy mages could take over the PCs easily, with all the > implications that has. Not many players are at all comfortable with the > thought of their characters becoming thus 'taken out of their hands', let > alone being made to do unsavory things. That is the game-masters problem! Of course, a major demon or god could do so ... but *why* should he do so? That is world-design and nothing the game-system should enforce on the game! > Thus for reasons of play balance and group wellbeing the system makes > provision for lots of opprtunities for resisting and difficulties at > controlling people. I find that this leads many mages down the "I use force > 'cause sublety don't work" route. But that's personal. I think, you are completely right. With GURPS Psionics, you at least have more way to balance your campaign. With both Power and Skill, you can already finetune some things. Although i would appreciate more details and way to increase and decrease abilities. For example TK-Shield ... You need it to fly fast, but always need to roll against it. That means, you *will* finally get a Critical result and into problems. But there and at Supers, you can try to get better results with Enhancements and Limitations. But again, i would like to buy a realy complete Magic-System, as well as Supers and Psionics and Martial Arts too, where i do not only get some ideas how i could do it myself, but already finished and scaleable for any gameworld. In some such aspects, the game-system HERO does better ... But GURPS is the better system in general, also with the better feel, so i am stuck with it :-( :-) Maybe, i need not only bare rules, but rules that are finished to a greater detail and based on more logical, even mathematic calcutations and reasonings ... Also more color in description. That a Curse Missile is a green ball, does not realy help. To the contrary, as it just does not fit into the otherwise description-less spells. And the last thing, in general GURPS rules are too often scattered around in a book or books. Try only to get a *real* information about Aiming on the Move. What dies "Move" mean in that context? 1 hex, upto halve movement, more, or at all? It is more difficult to be sure then i would like! Contests of Skills? Often enough, i am not completely sure if that is a regular or a quick contest. Should always use the correct work, i think. That loss-of-ST from loss-of-fatigue thread ... also an example, where the rules create a world that does not fit into my imagination. At least the Spell Might should then say "better not use that on yourself, as it will just reduce your ST!", and so on ... Again, examples are countless. Ups, i left the topcis. Comes from my earlier email today :-/ Sorry and Regards, - -- Thomas Ackermann | Tel. +49-(0)228/631369 | Mobil: 0178-2016033 Email: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:24:32 +0100 From: Thomas Ackermann Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Might-Spell and ST and Fatigue] On Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 08:19:52PM +0900, tbone wrote: > But when I see a rule like that, I don't assume that SJG is saying, > "Apply such-and-such fatigue for a battle. Any battle, I don't care > what the length or intensity or any other circumstances, just do it > like this and stop asking questions." : ) Rather, I take this sort of > rule to be an unwritten statement like, "Fatigue for a battle is far > too complex to cover in detail here; here's a guideline for an > undefined 'typical' battlefield skirmish. Use it where it feels right, > but otherwise, you'll have to use your own judgment in working things > to your liking." That's how I read rules like that. And, of course, you are right! Contrary to my last, unreasonable emails :-) > Which, of course, brings the question, "So what are 'rules' for, if > they make the players work out the details?" To that, I'd simply note > that the writers of a book like the Basic Set have tight deadlines and > budget limits; they have to gloss over a lot of minor areas. It's > unavoidable. If there are enough players out there interested in more > detailed and realistic workings of fatigue, this is a good chance for > you or somebody to work out a home-brewed proposal that answers the > issue, properly addressing all the factors you feel are relevant. I have found something that may be a solution for me. I quite much like Free Software, GNU and things alike. There seems to be something like that for RPG as well. It is called DragonNet, when i recall correctly, but i did not look into it ... i will later compare it to GURPS! > That's the great thing about the Internet age: we don't have to wait > for game companies to fill in all the holes, we can jump in and do it > ourselves! Go ahead and show SJG (and all of us) how it should be done! With DragonNet, it seems, some people did that already. When they did it right, that may be my system as well :-) If i recall correctly, they explicitely based their work on more traditional games and seem to have the right mind: ### Open Systems Development Philosophy - ----------------------------------- Unix is a popular computer operating system for two primary reasons. One: it's free (usually), and Two it uses an open system architecture. Computer operating systems and RPG's actually have a lot in common. They are simply a set of logical rules combined with a syntax. This combination results in a system where user defined modules interact. RPG mechanics are also a set of rules and syntax for the purpose of role playing or story-telling. If Unix can be successful as a free system with open system architecture, DragonNet should be successful as a free open-system RPG. ### And also: ### The Quest for Realism - --------------------- Almost all of us started RPG's with one of the early RPG systems. It was fun for a while, but as we progressed they lost some of their charm. Perhaps our character had progressed to beyond the 10th level and game balance was forever lost. Maybe we no longer felt we had enough options, or it seemed stupid that our fighter could dive off a 100 foot cliff into solid rock and pick himself off the ground with relatively minor injuries. In any event, we decided we could improve the system. We started by working within the systems framework. Soon we exhausted all the possibilities. Many of the problems were fundamental flaws in the games themselves unable to be easily fixed without causing major problems somewhere else. Next we moved on to other systems. We tried RuneQuest(tm) or RoleMaster(tm). Then we moved on to "third generation" games such as Hero (tm) or G.U.R.P.S. (tm). Still we were unsatisfied. We questioned why. These games were rich with detail. The realism we craved was there. Why did they lack the charm of those first RPG sessions? ### Whatever, i will have a close look at it: Clean ascii: HTML (and nicer): But it seems to be abandoned already :-( - -- Thomas Ackermann | Tel. +49-(0)228/631369 | Mobil: 0178-2016033 Email: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:52:57 -0600 From: Matthew S Pulido Subject: Help with a power A character I created for my own fiction has a rather unique power and I'm wondering how to handle it in GURPS. She is basically a Morph of limited ability. She can change between a demon form and a form that looks fully human. That part I have covered. But she can also "morph" clothing and it becomes real. She and others can feel it and she can take it off, although when removed it will eventually go out of reality. In my stories I have described it as her creating the clothing out of thin air (I haven't bothered with a more scientific explanation). She doesn't have to concentrate to maintain it. The whole point is that the character herself enjoys the sensuous feel of the clothing herself, but she likes to change outfits on a whim. Would some kind of special effect on Morph do the trick here? Talison - -- "Come to me, Superman! I defy you! Come and kneel before Zod! Zod!" General Zod of Krypton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:18:58 +0000 From: beccaelizabeth Subject: Re: Help with a power being able to create clothing is being able to create complex organic chemicals in difficult shapes with a strong, light, warm, opaque, waterproof etc structure. Someone, somewhere, will find a way to make this useful to an adventure. Just think of all the things DrWho did with just hat and scarf. If nothing else it will mean they are never short of rope. being able to invent clothes for real would mean if they travel to the arctic or just go out in the rain they could invent some coats, pass them out, and have the whole party not suffer the effects of hyperthermia etc. Like temperature tolerance you can share. and is this clothing decorative or could it include, say, wetsuits or a space suit or armour? It seems more like an illusion if they stop existing again later. look pretty, do nothing useful on account of not being real. later beccaelizabeth in sneaky mood. spent the weekend inventing a police character who actually makes Food college spells useful. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:07:29 +0200 From: "Taneli Pirinen Jka" Subject: Re: Help with a power Maybe an Innate Create Object-spell with reduced energy cost? Taneli "We all should share our knowledge but then our heads would explode." -Taneli 2001 taneli.pirinen(removethis)@(diespamdie)oyk.pkky.fi ICQ# 177695955 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:31:46 +0100 From: "Hans-Christian Vortisch" Subject: Grass THE TIN DRUM/Churchill THE SECOND WORLD WAR I am looking for quotes out of the English translation of THE TIN DRUM and the English original of THE SECOND WORLD WAR; I have only the German versions. If anyone has these books, please mail me offlist. Cheers HANS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:20:48 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lang Subject: Vehicles Companion all-call (fwd) Steve Jackson Games still requires material for the GURPS Vehicles Companion. We are accepting additional vehicles, and also seek essays on vehicular technology and related subjects (see below). With the release of GURPS Vehicles Expansions 1 and 2, and GURPS Vehicles Lite, some vehicles slated for the Companion are outdated by GURPS Vehicles standards - one thing we hope to address during a renewed playtest is the updating of some of these vehicles. If you have submitted a vehicle for the Companion, and these recent releases have provided additional options that would benefit your submission(s), please feel free to retool the machine using the new options. Note that you are not required to shoehorn new options into your submissions (obviously not every horse and buggy will need refitting with new materials), but if you feel your design would be improved by such a revision, please let us know. We are also seeking new material for the book along the lines of overviews of important developments in, and facets of, vehicles and vehicle technology. If such an essay is directly related to a particular vehicle, preference for writing that essay will be given to that author who wrote the original entry. This could include, but is not limited to: - - A brief history of JPL and its place in vehicle development. - - A discussion of the use of the Huey helicopter throughout its history. - - As the Huey, but with another, similarly versatile craft. - - Mission-specific loadouts for a combat vehicle. - - Stats for different generations of missiles and shells. - - The effects of introducing a new vehicle technology in a society. - - Technologies that were tried and that failed miserably, but which went on to influence cinema and fiction. For instance, there is no sign that anyone plans to use "rocket packs" in atmosphere in the foreseeable future - save perhaps as curiosities - but they feature prominently in a certain kind of technothriller. - - How cinema and fiction have influenced real-world engineering. The U.S. Army is currently designing battlesuits . . . and their promotional webpage sports some battlesuit designs stolen directly from anime. - - Industrial design. Why do vehicles look like they do? Vehicles, Vehicles Expansion 1 and 2, and Vehicles Lite gloss over this - why did 50s cars have fins? Why do motorcycles use chrome where a matte finish would be more practical? Note that this list is not exhaustive; submitters are encouraged to offer their own subjects for discussion. Entries should be 300-500 words. Longer entries are possible, but should be fairly broad or comprehensive topics. Note also what this is not. With few exceptions (such as stats for different generations of missiles and shells, mentioned in the bulleted list above), this is not a request for new weapon or vehicle technologies or design options - those are the purview of the Expansions. Similarly, we do not wish to see extensive discussions of pet theories or what you see as shortcomings with the system we have. Entries should also hold the interest of a wide variety of readers - concentrate on the big picture. Entries should keep foremost in mind the importance of roleplaying and your subject's place in it. If you can see players using your material to enhance their game play or add depth to their adventures, we want to see it. If it boils down to minutiae that add detail without augmenting the roleplaying experience, please rethink the subject so that it has wider utility and appeal. There is already a chapter on vehicle-centric roleplaying, but I am willing to entertain material about vehicles in the campaign (particularly wraparound text for individual chapters: "If you're going to use aircraft . . ."). Writers are warned such material may already be a part of the manuscript (and therefore rejected), or that such entries may be assimilated with little fanfare into the vehicle-centric chapter, without much in the way of clear demarcation ("Yes, I wrote this part . . . or part of this part . . . sort of . . ."). Vehicle submissions should be posted on the GURPS Vehicles Companion playtest board, and queries about the other subjects directed to Andy Vetromile at dntpnc@aol.com (a query will save you writing a topic that has already been assigned, turned in, rejected, etc.). Please feel free to redistribute this solicitation. All comers are welcome (though of course only Pyramid submitters will see the submissions and be able to take part in the playtest). Remember, once you have a vehicle that has been accepted (and run through playtest), you will be expected to provide the revised vehicle in the proper format (I have a template I will send you at your request), and in the proper platform (a WYSIWYG Word document we use, which, again, you may get by requesting it from me). That address again is dntpnc@aol.com. Now for the legalese and the compensation: All submissions become the property of Steve Jackson Games. All contributors who have material accepted for the book will be credited on the title page. Contributors who have 1,000 or more words of material accepted and used in the finished product will also receive 1 (one) copy of the published book, while those who have 3,000 or more words of material accepted and used in the finished product will receive 2 (two) copies of the published book. No contributor will receive more than 2 (two) copies of the published book. Compensation will be based on word counts after editing. <<<>>> ------------------------------ End of GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3768 ******************************* To subscribe to GURPSnet-Digest, send the command: subscribe GURPSnet-Digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". 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