GURPSnet-Digest Wednesday, February 12 2003 Volume 04 : Number 3772 In this issue: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Re: GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3771 (Italian editions) geekdom squared Blank Hex Map Re: GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3771 (Italian editions) Hedge Magic RE: Blank Hex Map Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Re: Hedge Magic RE: Hedge Magic RE: Hedge Magic RE: Hedge Magic RE: Blank Hex Map Quick limitation question Re: Quick limitation question Re: Quick limitation question [VEHICLE] of the week 433 - Cinematic TL6 Fighter Re: Quick limitation question Cellphone Guns Re: Cellphone Guns Re: Cellphone Guns Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? RE: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? Re: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? Re: Cellphone Guns RE: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the GURPSnet-L or GURPSnet-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:52:36 -0600 From: "Geoffrey Fagan" Subject: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Foil fencing is similar to the sport you describe, except that when you "face parry" it doesn't hurt. From my experience, I'm not sure a "face parry" or "arm parry" is a fully conscious choice - it's more a matter of how to keep a valid target out of the way, and in a split second you decide whether that means moving entirely out of reach or turning so that some non-target part of your body is in the way of the target. I'd probably say that defending the smaller target area is easier; therefore, you get a bonus to defense rolls. If the head is the only non-target area, a bonus of +1 is enough. Then I'd rule that if you succeeded by only 1, you got hit in the head. Then if someone wanted to call a face parry, I'd apply a penalty (maybe -3, improvable as a maneuver. Success means a hit in the face, failure a hit to a random location - you weren't trying to get the rest of your body out of the way, just to put your face in the way. Failure on a called face parry means your face is not interposed and the shot lands where it was aimed - i.e., no chance that a failed face parry results in a successful dodge. Oh, in foil fencing, an off-target hit results in stopped action. So if I execute a regular parry, I get to strike back before my opponent recovers, but if I do a face parry or arm parry, action stops, and my opponent may get in the first stab when it resumes. Would your sport have any caveat like that, in order to discourage people from parrying with their heads on purpose? >From: Johannes Trimmel >To: GURPS Maillist >Subject: New Maneuver: Face Parry >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:45:25 +0100 (MEZ) > >The idea: > >There is some remotely boxing like sport where attacks tot he head are >strictly forbidden by tournament law and should a fighter hit the opponent >on the head he automatically looses this combat. > >Then some tough professionals in that sport started to develop a technique >to "dodge" in such a way that they get hit in the face by attacks that >originally were aimed elsewhere. > >how to implements it: > >This maneuver will definitly will require a willroll at some penality to >perform (propably -8,-4 if you have HPT). You might replace will with a >will based skill for that purose. A miss means you make a normal defence, >on a miss by less then 2 you are at a -2 for that defence but if it >fails you are hit in the face, because you started a face parry but >abandoned it during the execution. If you miss the willroll critically you >take no defence at all. > > >Does anybody have an idea how difficult a face parry would be to do, only >the technical execution, not the will part. Would it be easier or harder >then a normal unarmed defence? > >I'd only allow it for attacks that would originally had hit the body, >maybee also for arms at a penality. > >What would be a good cap for how high it can be bought. (I don't think you >need to care about playbalance for this one) > > > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >Better a solution that makes the problem worse then no solution at all. > >Johannes Trimmel >++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:14:36 +0100 (MEZ) From: Johannes Trimmel Subject: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Joachim Schipper wrote: > > how to implements it: > > > > This maneuver will definitly will require a willroll at some penality to > > perform (propably -8,-4 if you have HPT). > > For untrained people, yes - if you're trained, you have changed your > reflexes. The hard part is in not using the wrong kind of parry - parrying a > sword with your head, for instance. > > But I do not think a Will-8 roll is necessary for trained people. > The will based skill that can replace will should simulate training. > > You might replace will with a > > will based skill for that purose. A miss means you make a normal defence, > > on a miss by less then 2 you are at a -2 for that defence but if it > > fails you are hit in the face, because you started a face parry but > > abandoned it during the execution. If you miss the willroll critically you > > take no defence at all. > > Ehm... but the purpose is to get hit in the face, no? Why would you want to > parry then? The idea is that if you miss the will roll you will defend normally instead of with your face. With no defence at all i mean you neither make an ordinary defence nor a face parry but just do nothing usefull while making up your mind. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better a solution that makes the problem worse then no solution at all. Johannes Trimmel ++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:56:24 +0100 (MEZ) From: Johannes Trimmel Subject: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Geoffrey Fagan wrote: > > Foil fencing is similar to the sport you describe, except that when you > "face parry" it doesn't hurt. From my experience, I'm not sure a "face > parry" or "arm parry" is a fully conscious choice - it's more a matter of > how to keep a valid target out of the way, and in a split second you decide > whether that means moving entirely out of reach or turning so that some > non-target part of your body is in the way of the target. > I think if it hurts it will become a concious decision. > I'd probably say that defending the smaller target area is easier; > therefore, you get a bonus to defense rolls. If the head is the only > non-target area, a bonus of +1 is enough. Then I'd rule that if you > succeeded by only 1, you got hit in the head. Yes if the defender just does some sort of defence but not conciously dcides which this seems good. I just need something to roll against to see if it was a faceparry or not. > > Then if someone wanted to call a face parry, I'd apply a penalty (maybe -3, > improvable as a maneuver. Success means a hit in the face, failure a hit to > a random location - you weren't trying to get the rest of your body out of > the way, just to put your face in the way. Failure on a called face parry > means your face is not interposed and the shot lands where it was aimed - > i.e., no chance that a failed face parry results in a successful dodge. > That is what i intended. The only way to get not hit after a called face parry would be to miss the willroll. > Oh, in foil fencing, an off-target hit results in stopped action. So if I > execute a regular parry, I get to strike back before my opponent recovers, > but if I do a face parry or arm parry, action stops, and my opponent may get > in the first stab when it resumes. Would your sport have any caveat like > that, in order to discourage people from parrying with their heads on > purpose? > The refree might come to the conclusion that there was no hit if there are no visible signs of a hit. You will recognize fighters who make face parries regulary by the amount of teeth they don't have and the unconventional nose shapes. Should the hit get in the eye (i see i need to make random hit location table for hitlocations in the face) you might end with a blinded eye. If that happens twice you have a 50% chance that your career is over. Face parries are for fighters who want fast, short, cometary careers or to be used rarely if you face a superior opponent, you don't think you can win against with ordinary tactics in an important tournament. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better a solution that makes the problem worse then no solution at all. Johannes Trimmel ++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:43:31 +0100 From: "Michele Armellini" Subject: Re: GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3771 (Italian editions) > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 02:56:49 +0100 > From: Mario Tani > Subject: Re: Where have all the gamers gone? > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 08:41:29PM -0300, Marcelo Cortimiglia wrote: > > Mario, > > > > the Basic Set - or any other GURPS book - has been translated to italian?? > > Sure! > > But it's an old edition, 3rd not revised. > > In Italy the "Giochi Dei Grandi" in collaboration with the DAS (they > are or were italian society) edited the folowing books: > > 1) GURPS Basic 3rd Edition > 2) GURPS Magic > 3) GURPS Fantasy > 4) GURPS Space (1st ed.) > 5) GURPS Martial Arts > 6) GURPS Conan > > no more. > GURPS Cyberpunk. Believe me, I own it. Not an exceptionally good translation, but it works. Regards, Michele Armellini GURPS Cliffhangers and WWII characters and vehicles: http://space.virgilio.it/miarmel@tin.it/index.html GURPS WWII - GRIM LEGIONS: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/ww2/grimlegions/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:23:38 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?james=20robertson?= Subject: geekdom squared So - if I am a GURPS fan AND a Mac user, that must mean I am a geek squared?! I have to agree! Love the analogy though - and the reasoning behind it! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:27:07 -0600 From: "Gabe Johanns" Subject: Blank Hex Map Anyone know where I can get a good blank hex map to print out on a 11x17 inch sheet? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:20:14 +0100 From: Mario Tani Subject: Re: GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3771 (Italian editions) On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 09:43:31AM +0100, Michele Armellini wrote: > > In Italy the "Giochi Dei Grandi" in collaboration with the DAS (they > > are or were italian society) edited the folowing books: > > > > 1) GURPS Basic 3rd Edition > > 2) GURPS Magic > > 3) GURPS Fantasy > > 4) GURPS Space (1st ed.) > > 5) GURPS Martial Arts > > 6) GURPS Conan > > > > no more. > > > > GURPS Cyberpunk. Believe me, I own it. Not an exceptionally good > translation, but it works. > Regards, > > Michele Armellini Yeah, you're right, there's even GURPS Cyberpunk, I forgot it^__^ It happened maybe as I've given it to a Friend of mine in order to let him gamemastering a game in a cyberpunk campaign... IIRC it is based upon Nathan Never, an italian cyberpyunk comic... It was a story of a Detective in a private special agency, that had a "official" conversion in CP2020. I used the brackets as I don not know if this book I'm speaking about was ever sold out of Italy, and it was sold from the same editor (or maybe was the distributor?) of the italian version of CP2020. I do not own the book so I cannot be more precise, CP2020 and Nathan Never were never in my personal top ten of their genre^_^ The translation is the same of all the DAS products, it tend to translate the letter and not the meaning, so sometime can create some difficulties... overall it was not too bad. - -- Mario Tani IHGGer #438 ICQ UIN = 62716435 "Da Ya Wonna Live Forever?" "At Least I'Ve Arrived There" "A Kiss Is Not Always The Truth, But It Is Often What We Want To Be True" "Science It's An Art: It Takes Love, Faith & Courage" Official Member of the S.I.S.De. Follower of the Penguin (Keep on Linux!) G.U.R.P.S. FARRIK (UN)Official Site: Under (RE)Construction gurpsit an Italian G.U.R.P.S. ML: gurpsit-subscribe@egroups.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:57:45 -0000 From: "McCarty-Eigenmann" Subject: Hedge Magic Has anyone tried this advantage out as player or GM. If so, how did it work out. Are there any neat things I should be aware of? Mce - -about to play one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:58:32 -0500 From: Gikiski Subject: RE: Blank Hex Map http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/hexpaper.htm :-----Original Message----- :From: Gabe Johanns [mailto:GJohanns@loffler.com] :Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:27 PM :To: GURPSnet-L@lists.io.com :Subject: Blank Hex Map : : :Anyone know where I can get a good blank hex map to print out :on a 11x17 :inch sheet? : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Cybrludite Subject: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry Just had a silly idea... How about combining it with Head Butt for an Agressive Face Parry? "Dude, did you see what I did to his fist?" ===== Jon rm -rf /bin/laden __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 02:04:12 +0100 From: Mario Tani Subject: Re: New Maneuver: Face Parry On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 05:05:42PM -0800, Cybrludite wrote: > Just had a silly idea... How about combining it with > Head Butt for an Agressive Face Parry? "Dude, did you > see what I did to his fist?" If You can spend 12 point maybe its better: First declare Wait then when the opponent attack Face Parry - Head Butt - Head Butt Head Butt - Head Butt - Head Butt "I Hitted his fist with my face so many times that his hand is wounded" - -- Mario Tani IHGGer #438 ICQ UIN = 62716435 "Da Ya Wonna Live Forever?" "At Least I'Ve Arrived There" "A Kiss Is Not Always The Truth, But It Is Often What We Want To Be True" "Science It's An Art: It Takes Love, Faith & Courage" Official Member of the S.I.S.De. Follower of the Penguin (Keep on Linux!) G.U.R.P.S. FARRIK (UN)Official Site: Under (RE)Construction gurpsit an Italian G.U.R.P.S. ML: gurpsit-subscribe@egroups.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:24:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Lang Subject: Re: Hedge Magic McCarty-Eigenmann wrote: > Has anyone tried this advantage out as player or GM. If so, how did it > work out. Are there any neat things I should be aware of? Conceptually, Hedge Magic is wonderful; in practice, I've found it to be lacking in terms of guidance. However, this may have more to do with my style of gaming than with any faults in the system. In short, I'd like to see the system be more clear as to what is and is not acceptable for the given point cost of the Advantage. Furthermore, there's the question of which of the character's skills can benefit from Hedge Magic - I could see two different characters having identical skills, but one of them can use Hedge Magic with one subset of those skills while the other can use a different subset... My solution to the above problems has been to use a variation of the Ritual Magic system found in GURPS Spirits, where individual Rituals can default off of (and be used in conjunction with) mundane skills instead of or in addition to Paths, instead of the system proposed by S.John Ross. I charge an Unusual Background cost to gain these additional capabilities on a per-skill basis, as the Rituals arguably become much more useful than they would be in the default Ritual Magic system, but otherwise leave the RM system untouched (although I've toyed with lowering the cost of a Ritual to 1/level if it's based on a Mental skill other than VH, or boosting it to 4/level if it's based on a Physical skill). Neat things: Hedge Magic can be used to represent a priest's ability to use Theology to drive away evil spirits, to consecrate people, places, things, or vows, or to pray for guidance; it could also be used as an alternative to Exotic Skills as explanations for some of the more cinematic abilities expressed by martial artists. It is very definitely _not_ limited to "country doctor" concepts. ===== Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:12:55 -0000 From: "McCarty-Eigenmann" Subject: RE: Hedge Magic > Conceptually, Hedge Magic is wonderful; in practice, I've found it to be > lacking in terms of guidance. However, this may have more to do with my > style > of gaming than with any faults in the system. In short, I'd like to see > the > system be more clear as to what is and is not acceptable for the given > point > cost of the Advantage. Furthermore, there's the question of which of the > character's skills can benefit from Hedge Magic - I could see two > different > characters having identical skills, but one of them can use Hedge Magic > with > one subset of those skills while the other can use a different subset... I'll admit, it's the guidance thing I'm having a little trouble with. As a GM, I've used it a few times. I have used it to cover martial arts type 'magic' and non-human abilities, such as elf agilty. > My solution to the above problems has been to use a variation of the > Ritual > Magic system found in GURPS Spirits, where individual Rituals can default > off > of (and be used in conjunction with) mundane skills instead of or in > addition > to Paths, instead of the system proposed by S.John Ross. I charge an > Unusual > Background cost to gain these additional capabilities on a per-skill > basis, as > the Rituals arguably become much more useful than they would be in the > default > Ritual Magic system, but otherwise leave the RM system untouched (although > I've > toyed with lowering the cost of a Ritual to 1/level if it's based on a > Mental > skill other than VH, or boosting it to 4/level if it's based on a Physical > skill). > > Neat things: Hedge Magic can be used to represent a priest's ability to > use Theology to drive away evil spirits, to consecrate people, places, > things, or > vows, or to pray for guidance; it could also be used as an alternative to > Exotic Skills as explanations for some of the more cinematic abilities > expressed by martial artists. It is very definitely _not_ limited to > "country doctor" concepts. [:) read - then reply.] we are on the same lines. My PC-to-be is a gypsy tinker. And a real jack of all trades. We use a UB to allow PC's to have loads of background type skill above their 2/yr figure to represent unusually widely 'educated' chaps. It suits this guy down to the ground. I wanted to list of against the skills he uses the special talents he can apply. Your RM model is especially aposit as we are using a variation of the Verb-Noun version of improv magic for magic in the setting - and I have to take latent magery too. Ta DW mce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Lang Subject: RE: Hedge Magic McCarty-Eigenmann wrote: > [:) read - then reply.] we are on the same lines. > > My PC-to-be is a gypsy tinker. And a real jack of all trades. We use a > UB to allow PC's to have loads of background type skill above their 2/yr > figure to represent unusually widely 'educated' chaps. It suits this > guy down to the ground. > > I wanted to list of against the skills he uses the special talents he > can apply. Your RM model is especially aposit as we are using a > variation of the Verb-Noun version of improv magic for magic in the > setting - and I have to take latent magery too. No offense, but I'm having some difficulty parsing this paragraph. Please clarify... BTW, thanks for the post. In my "copious spare time", I've been working on a future "GURPS Mystic" website which has its origins in MA Lloyd's analysis and deconstruction of the original version of Ritual Magic found in GURPS Voodoo. One of the items that I had in mind was to address how the RM system could be used as a mechanical basis for the Hedge Magic concept; your request has sparked an idea. I'm thinking of codifying the "per skill" UB cost and likely skill defaults (frex, "Exorcise: Defaults to Path of Spirits -x, Path of Protection -y, or Theology -z (Hedge Magicians only)" and "Hedge Magic: 10 points per empowered skill") - handle Hedge Magic as an extension of RM, rather than as a variation of it, as I was originally thinking. And yes, I'd include the RM modifiers for Time, Space, Material Components, etc. when performing Hedge Magic - one issue that Ross' Hedge Magic article doesn't address is _how_ a hedge magician gets that "little something extra" into his or her performance of otherwise-mundane tasks. Historically, it's been done by the very same things that the RM Elements represent - symbols and a certain amount of ritual. Indeed, the only conceptual difference between Hedge Magic and Ritual Magic is that HM rituals generally serve useful purposes in their own right, whereas RM rituals are generally only good for initiating a supernatural effect. ===== Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 07:58:48 -0000 From: "McCarty-Eigenmann" Subject: RE: Hedge Magic > > My PC-to-be is a gypsy tinker. And a real jack of all trades. We use a > > UB to allow PC's to have loads of background type skill above their 2/yr > > figure to represent unusually widely 'educated' chaps. It suits this > > guy down to the ground. > > > > I wanted to list of against the skills he uses the special talents he > > can apply. Your RM model is especially aposit as we are using a > > variation of the Verb-Noun version of improv magic for magic in the > > setting - and I have to take latent magery too. > > No offense, but I'm having some difficulty parsing this paragraph. Please > clarify... sorry - I have to take Magery - this was in my character directions from the GM. After I discussed the PC-to-be Hedge Magic seemed right for him, so we dropped the level of magery to latent and a cost of 5pts, so I can use a version of the Improv magic rules we use based on skill in Verbs and Nouns to make the magic work. This is taking my strongly held theory that while science works to the letter of the law, magic works to the intention of the law. So two guys both with Create - 12 and Fire -10 both cast a spell, but one is casting 'ignite fire' and the other is casting 'fireball'. Using the variations lifted from RM and home brewed I have a list of ads and disads to the individual spell, chance based on whether they use verbal, somatic and material components, took time, had a fetish to improve chances at one or the other skill, etc. what degree of effect they are after, etc. I wont bother the list with details, as I can already hear the whines about 'it just being like all the other versions' But it works for us. > BTW, thanks for the post. In my "copious spare time", I've been working > on a > future "GURPS Mystic" website which has its origins in MA Lloyd's analysis > and > deconstruction of the original version of Ritual Magic found in GURPS > Voodoo. > One of the items that I had in mind was to address how the RM system could > be > used as a mechanical basis for the Hedge Magic concept; your request has > sparked an idea. I'm thinking of codifying the "per skill" UB cost and > likely > skill defaults (frex, "Exorcise: Defaults to Path of Spirits -x, Path of > Protection -y, or Theology -z (Hedge Magicians only)" and "Hedge Magic: 10 > points per empowered skill") - handle Hedge Magic as an extension of RM, > rather > than as a variation of it, as I was originally thinking. I would be interested in discussing this further. I was just mailing to my GM - suggesting that HM be 5pts + 1pt per affected skill or possibly 1pt per ritual if he wants more mechanical effects. He'll go for the former as he dislikes maneuvers - despite liking the Improv magic system. [I think he bought MA and panicked.] having said that, he has played using the Improv magic and come up with some clever effects. > And yes, I'd include the RM modifiers for Time, Space, Material > Components, > etc. when performing Hedge Magic - one issue that Ross' Hedge Magic > article > doesn't address is _how_ a hedge magician gets that "little something > extra" > into his or her performance of otherwise-mundane tasks. Historically, > it's > been done by the very same things that the RM Elements represent - symbols > and > a certain amount of ritual. Indeed, the only conceptual difference > between > Hedge Magic and Ritual Magic is that HM rituals generally serve useful > purposes > in their own right, whereas RM rituals are generally only good for > initiating a supernatural effect. HM is less mechanical, I suspect that more guidelines will help some and hinder others. 'functional, yet joyless' - thats how I feel about the formulaic vanilla magic. However, the players can't get into the voodoo modifications I've tried. ['It costs too many points for no real effects.'] They want _fantasy_ magic, not _horror_ magic. I want _magic_ magic - I like the: 'don't panick, I'm here. Right. Bring me a roll of clean parchment, two pieces of beef with the least fat possible, some salt in a white dish, a broom and exactly one pint of ale.' 'whats the ale for Master?' 'this spell always makes me thirsty' So I'm definitely interested. mce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:09:21 -0500 From: "Sean Wijbrandus" Subject: RE: Blank Hex Map Not sure about 11x17, but I can print you out 24x36 hex maps, in any scale hex you want. See my webpage at http://www.wijbrandus.com/templarprinting, and/or contact me off the list. Sean Wijbrandus - -----Original Message----- From: owner-gurpsnet-l@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-gurpsnet-l@lists.io.com] On Behalf Of Gabe Johanns Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:27 PM To: GURPSnet-L@lists.io.com Subject: Blank Hex Map Anyone know where I can get a good blank hex map to print out on a 11x17 inch sheet? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:27:22 +0200 From: "Kaj Sotala" Subject: Quick limitation question How much would you say a "can be negated with a Will -2 roll" limitation would be worth on a disadvantage? (On the Manic-Depressive disad, to be precise). "There are those that say the universe is mad. It creates and its creations destroy. I wager that the universe is not mad. It creates and its creations rebuild that which has been destroyed to teach others not to destroy, but to build." ICQ 18051088/AIM Xuenay/MSN Xuenay@Hotmail.com | http://www.saunalahti.fi/~tspro1/ PGP: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~tspro1/Kaj_Sotala.asc for my public key ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 00:43:58 +0200 From: Pauli Hakala Subject: Re: Quick limitation question Kaj Sotala wrote: > > How much would you say a "can be negated with > a Will -2 roll" limitation would be worth on a > disadvantage? (On the Manic-Depressive disad, > to be precise). > I'd say that this would depend on said characters Will. How likely is the disad to work? We already have the Unreliable limitation. If the character has a will of 10 (the average), then Will-2 would be 8. Unreliable: 8 is worth -30%.. - -Pauli - -- "..But how do I feel in my gloomy depths? Like the flat brink of a cloud, like a dark night in autumn, a black winter day. No, darker than that, gloomier than an autumn night." - -Amorphis, Black Winter Day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 20:25:52 +0100 From: "Joachim Schipper" Subject: Re: Quick limitation question While I would agree with what you say, it's not quite canon. Normally, disadvantages indeed become less disadvantageous with high Will... If you really want to make it Will-dependent, use -30% - the 'unreliability' roll for a normal person. Joachim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauli Hakala" To: "Kaj Sotala" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Quick limitation question > Kaj Sotala wrote: > > > > How much would you say a "can be negated with > > a Will -2 roll" limitation would be worth on a > > disadvantage? (On the Manic-Depressive disad, > > to be precise). > > > > I'd say that this would depend on said characters Will. How likely is > the disad to work? > > We already have the Unreliable limitation. If the character has a will > of 10 (the average), then Will-2 would be 8. Unreliable: 8 is > worth -30%.. > > > -Pauli > -- > "..But how do I feel in my gloomy depths? Like the flat brink of a > cloud, > like a dark night in autumn, a black winter day. No, darker than that, > gloomier than an autumn night." > -Amorphis, Black Winter Day > - --- My outgoing mail is checked for viruses. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27-1-03 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:26:36 +0100 (MET) From: "Onno Meyer" Subject: [VEHICLE] of the week 433 - Cinematic TL6 Fighter This is a weekly posting with GURPS vehicles (and the like) to the GURPSnet mailing list. I grant the permission for all non-commercial redistribution of my work, but I would like to know if you put it on a website or the like. With a slight delay, old vehicles appear at http://gurpsnet.sjgames.com/Archive/Vehicles/Collections/ and http://www.geocities.com/copeab/VOTW.html Onno Meyer, 2/2003 Heavy Fighter v1.0 (TL6) Copyright 2003 by Onno Meyer In cinematic games where imagination wins over aerodynamics, it makes sense to add a powered rear turret to a fighter. To increase the arc of fire, the tail surfaces were moved onto the wings. The result is a well-armed fighter with four wing-mounted .50-caliber machine guns and two .30-caliber tail guns. The tough steel armor makes it an effective dogfighter. The fighter has a pilot and a gunner. It burns 25 gallons of aviation gas per hour. A full load of fuel and ammo is $416. Visibility is good. The wings can fold for storage. Subassemblies: Body +3, three retractable Wheels +0, two Wings +1, limited-rotation Turret [Bod:B] +1. P&P: 500 kW HP gasoline engine with a 15-second nitrous oxide tank and a 500 kW early propeller; 80 kWs lead-acid battery. Fuel: 100-gallon tank. Occ: 1 CCS (body), 1 CCS (turret). Cargo: - Armor F RL B T U Body: 4/16 4/16 4/16 4/16 4/16 Wheels: 3/10 3/10 3/10 3/10 3/10 Wings: 3/10 3/10 3/10 3/10 3/10 Turret: 4/16 4/16 4/16 4/16 Weaponry 2 12.7mm MGs [WiR:F] (500 each) * 2 12.7mm MGs [WiL:F] (500 each) * 2 7.62mm MGs [Tur:B] (1,000 each) * * Front and rear sets linked. Equipment Body: 10-mile radio; navigation instruments. Turret: Universal mount for 7.62mm MGs. Statistics Size: 31'x41'x13' Payload: 1,780 lbs. Lwt: 8,250 lbs. Volume: 176 cf Maint: 56 hours Price: $129,146 HT: 10 HP: 225 [Body] 20 [Wheels] 90 [Wings] 75 [Turret] aSpeed: 240/265 aAccel: 3/4 aDecel: 16 aMR: 4 aSR: 2 Stall Speed 120 mph. Design Notes The 120-cf body has an expensive frame with fair streamlining, 30.3 cf of access space and 6.6199 cf of empty space. The 6-cf wheels have an expensive frame. The 13-cf wings have an expensive frame with 0.58 cf of empty space each. The 24-cf turret has an expensive frame with 2.06 cf of empty space. The surface area is 340 sf. The armor is advanced metal. The TL6 vehicle uses Vehicles [2nd edition, 3rd printing, July '02 errata]. The split speed and acceleration stats are performance without and with the booster. Next Week: A Cybermech Damocles ship for Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:45:28 EST From: SWLapinsky@aol.com Subject: Re: Quick limitation question Personally, I use a flat -20% limitation for "mitigated by xxxxx," be it a Will roll, or a skill. At one point I had some reasoning behind it (though, as I recall, it might have been a bit shaky) -- but I don't remember what that reasoning is. (I would have responded to this thread earlier if I could have remembered...). Note that it's -20% for "mitigated by Will," and it's -20% for "mitigated by Will -2" -- in either case, you can spend character points and make that mitigation easier. - - Stephen Lapinsky "Freedom tempered by responsibility." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:14:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Shai S. Laric" Subject: Cellphone Guns Saw news reports recently about concealed .22 firearms, disguised as cellphones, that law enforcement officials in Belgium, the Netherlands, and France have seized. It is believed that they're being manufactured in Eastern Europe, possibly in the former Yugoslavia. http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=2189965 http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html - - Shai Laric slaric@io.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:15:56 -0800 (PST) From: Cybrludite Subject: Re: Cellphone Guns I don't know what's more worrysome. That these are being made, or that the universal response I've heard when passing the link along is, "Oooo, sweet! I want one!" (Yes, I reacted that way, too.) - --- "Shai S. Laric" wrote: > Saw news reports recently about concealed .22 > firearms, disguised as > cellphones, that law enforcement officials in > Belgium, the Netherlands, > and France have seized. It is believed that they're > being manufactured in > Eastern Europe, possibly in the former Yugoslavia. ===== Jon rm -rf /bin/laden __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:10:39 +0200 From: "Taneli Pirinen Jka" Subject: Re: Cellphone Guns slaric@io.com writes: >Saw news reports recently about concealed .22 firearms, disguised as >cellphones, that law enforcement officials in Belgium, the Netherlands, >and France have seized. It is believed that they're being manufactured in >Eastern Europe, possibly in the former Yugoslavia. > >http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=2189965 >http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html Hmm, a new model from Nokia I suppose ;-) Taneli "We all should share our knowledge but then our heads would explode." -Taneli 2001 taneli.pirinen(removethis)@(diespamdie)oyk.pkky.fi ICQ# 177695955 ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 2003 23:05:28 -0000 From: "Volker Bach" Subject: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? I am having a bit of a problem here. My character creation skills got a bit rusty and I am trying to GURPSify the following situation: character has a Dependency. As long as it is regularly fulfilled, she's normal. If it is not fulfilled she falls into a torpor (FT loss) and eventually turns into the stone statue she really is. In hibernation, she gets DR 10 and an obscene amount of huit points, but is completely immobile and can not interact with anyone (in fact she isn't even aware of her surroundings and once awoke in a museum collection) What is that in GURPS terms? Thanx Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:15:37 -0500 From: "2/C Joinson" Subject: RE: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? I would say that it might be something along the lines of the following: Slow Metabolism 10 (Mitigator: Chemical X, Vulnerable/Daily -60%) [-40] Body of Stone 15 (Chemical Trigger: Lack of Chemical X -**%; Always On when active -25%) The ** depends on how much this dependency is worth, it can be anywhere from -10% to -60%. Since a limitation can't go below -75% total, the final cost of both will equal between [38] and [-10] Anyone else have suggestions? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-gurpsnet-l@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-gurpsnet-l@lists.io.com] > On Behalf Of Volker Bach > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:05 PM > To: GURPSnet-L@io.com > Subject: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? > > I am having a bit of a problem here. My character creation skills got a > bit > rusty and I am trying to GURPSify the following situation: > > character has a Dependency. As long as it is regularly fulfilled, she's > normal. If it is not fulfilled she falls into a torpor (FT loss) and > eventually turns into the stone statue she really is. In hibernation, she > gets DR 10 and an obscene amount of huit points, but is completely > immobile > and can not interact with anyone (in fact she isn't even aware of her > surroundings and once awoke in a museum collection) > > What is that in GURPS terms? > > Thanx > > Volker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:48:21 -0600 From: "Chris J. Whitcomb" Subject: Re: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 01/27/03 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: Cybrludite Subject: Re: Cellphone Guns Then there's the cell-phone gun "developed" Birdman Industries... http://www.birdman.org/products/shotcall.htm That'll teach 'em to use their cell while driving! ===== Jon rm -rf /bin/laden __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2003 10:12:25 -0000 From: "Volker Bach" Subject: RE: Hibernation (Dis-)Advantage? On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:15:37 -0500, "2/C Joinson" wrote : > I would say that it might be something along the lines of the following: > > Slow Metabolism 10 (Mitigator: Chemical X, Vulnerable/Daily -60%) [-40] > Body of Stone 15 (Chemical Trigger: Lack of Chemical X -**%; Always On > when active -25%) > > The ** depends on how much this dependency is worth, it can be anywhere > from -10% to -60%. Since a limitation can't go below -75% total, the > final cost of both will equal between [38] and [-10] Hmmm - the Dependency is dead easy to fulfil, so she won't usually be turning into a statue unless she either finds herself in really odd circumstances or wants to. It works reasonably well. On the other hand I don't really think this as an Advantage (like the numbers would suggest). I mean, she turns into a genuine bona fide statue, becoming to all intents and purposes dead. It isn't a case of slow metabolism, she really misses out days, months, sometimes decades. Maybe adding another Disad to the mix (what would that be? Lifeless? Inactive?) - but that'd just be fiddling the numbers. Thanx Volker ------------------------------ End of GURPSnet-Digest V4 #3772 ******************************* To subscribe to GURPSnet-Digest, send the command: subscribe GURPSnet-Digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@io.com". 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